I had a comment on a recent post from an author I cited about the art of seduction. Always happy to debate any subject at all, I posted a lengthy response. Thought you all might be interested in this one:

Dear Art of Seduction,

I am thrilled that you took the time to comment on my post, “How to Get a Date with a Woman You’ve Never Met.” Thanks!

I guess we all go through life basing our beliefs upon our own personal experiences, which, of course, are widely varied, and so I’m content to “agree to disagree” and bat this subject around for entertainment and the opportunity to hear someone else’s experience.

Although my self-esteem hangs by a thread on most days, I do consider myself a reasonably attractive woman, and I can tell you from my experience that I do not have a plethora of men knocking down my door.

I also have beautiful, smart, single girlfriends, with whom I have had countless conversations on this subject, and we all have similar desires.

I don’t know if you are a man or a woman, but I assume you are writing from a male perspective.

You mention first that you rarely call numbers you receive. Well, that’s my first no-no. Girls don’t give men their cards unless the man has expressed interest and asked for it. We want the man to pursue us, not the other way around, unless the woman is the “masculine energy,” in which case my scenario would never work, because women like that go for more passive, “feminine-energy” guys. And believe me, if this situation happened to me in real life, it would never “skip my mind” to call, whether I decided to in the end or not. The minute I got to my destination, I would be on the phone immediately with my best girlfriend, saying, “You aren’t gonna believe what happened to me on the metro this morning!” And I’d be thinking about it all day – yes, even if the guy was butt-ugly.

I agree with you that for my dream scenario to work correctly, there must be some attraction. But of course, the woman must be attractive to the man, also, or he’d have no reason to want to take her out. But attraction, for me, is not only on a physical level, and I think most women would agree. We can be wooed. Most guys don’t care about “wooing” anymore. That’s sort of my whole point here.

This situation is to help you get your foot in the door – a chance to see her again and continue the wooing and the courting.

To your comment about the woman “actively looking for a man…” We are talking about dating here, so I make the assumption that both parties are “datable,” meaning available and willing. I think most single people would be open to dating someone new, even if they weren’t necessarily “on the prowl.”

As for the money thing, I didn’t say it had to be a lot of money. Money doesn’t turn me on. (In fact, if a guy were flaunting it, I would be less likely to go out with him. It would say a lot about his character to me.) But dinner is key. Your comment about the walk at the zoo drives this home. You are saying you could more easily end the date early if you need to (as opposed to a long dinner) – you are setting yourself up with an escape route – not the most attractive thing to a woman you are trying to woo. It shows you weren’t that interested in the first place. Dinner is an investment, not just with your money, but with your time and intention. That’s what we want to see.

You said, “but in common situations… do people really deserve compliments? Unless a girl’s doing something extremely special, it’s likely that she doesn’t deserve one.” Sorry, but I find this laughable and a little rude. “Doesn’t deserve one?” Why do you want to date her, then? If you don’t think I deserve a compliment unless I take a trip to Africa, then fuck you (nothing personal, just debating here). I would never want to date someone with that mentality.

I disagree that “making her feel special” should come later in the relationship. I want to feel special from the first moment. It’s part of the “wooing” process. There is some reason you picked her out of a crowd and wanted to ask her out, so apparently she is special in your eyes somehow… communicate that to her.

Most of us love the Cinderella story. The man pursues… he is so enraptured that he looks high and low for her – now that would make me feel special.

Anyway, I do thank you for your time and comments. This is an age-old mystery, isn’t it? And the women’s movement has sort of confused the issues… This was merely one single woman’s opinion – my little dating fantasy – and I thought I would share it.

Maybe I’ll drop my shoe on the next metro ride…

Just a quick post-script here: I was just reading some blogs and articles about abusive personalities. It occurs to me that the abusers seem to be experts in this wooing process. My sister reminded me the other day, when I mentioned something about finding “Prince Charming,” that “charming” is a verb.

Maybe that’s why so many nice women end up with the bad guys. It’s not that we’re looking for them – it’s that they know how to win our hearts.

The best scenario would be someone who knew how to charm me, but was also a really nice guy underneath… sort of like the Date Doctor in the movie Hitch.

Yes, because that’s what it’s all about, after all, isn’t it? Keeping a woman’s interest long enough to show her your soul… you can’t do that on a metro… or in a bar… or in an online dating profile.

7 Comments on “More on Getting a Date with a Woman You’ve Never Met

  1. After reading your reply, I agree with most of your points (except the dinner) I think that in this fast-paced-instant gratification world, most men forget that women want to be ‘wooed’.However, would you really want a guy who’s all over you? A guy that worships the ground you walk on?Without getting too much into psychology, we tend to assign relative value to people on a subconscious level. People whom compliment you, pay for you, chase you around everywhere are therefore assigned lower value because they are complying to you and trying to please you. And people aren’t attracted to lower value individuals. Its kind of a catch-22.I do believe its possible to woo a woman without resorting to putting her up on a pedestal. I wish you the best in finding that man. Take it for what its worth, but in the end, I believe its the guy who won’t immediately offer dinner that will be the best one.


  2. Speaking of phone numbers — I was in my late 20’s and talking to some female friends about dating and getting phone numbers. One of the women said, “And then you have to wonder if she gave you a real number.”I was surprised. I asked if women sometimes gave out fake numbers and was assured that it did happen. (Because, yes, I was that naive. Blame it on my small-town Ohio upbringing and being told to always tell the truth.)Of course, I called a girl once (back in college) only to hear her say, “I can’t believe you called.” When I asked why it was so hard to believe, as I had told her I’d call, she explained that guys always say they’ll call and never do. Apparently one problem is that there are a handful of women out there giving out false phone numbers and ruining it for all the other women. Of course, there seem to be an equal number of men on the prowl making the rest of the guys look bad. I’m guessing that this type of bad behavior occurs most often when we’re younger, but I don’t know. We seem to make dating harder than it has to be. (Your postscript, by the way, was very interesting and explains some of the otherwise unexplainable relationships I’ve seen over the years.)


  3. Art, Art, Art… (she says, shaking her head.)Please don’t tell me that you boys think compliments and dinner equates to falling all over us and worshiping the ground we walk on??? Say it isn’t so, Art. Have we really crushed your spirits that much? We are talking about American dating culture here, right? (I made that assumption in the beginning, since I know nothing about the whole process in other countries.)Dinner seems to be an easy way out for you guys in this scenario. What else can you suggest in a few first seconds of meeting someone? You really can’t be serious about the zoo. What if she hates the zoo? What if it’s cold outside? What if she doesn’t drink alcohol or coffee? Everyone eats dinner.My huge pet peeve about dating is when a guy will suggest a date, and then put it all back on me and ask, “Well, what do you like to do? Tell me some places you like to go.” That’s bullshit. Be a man. Figure it out. Impress me. If the relationship continues, believe me, there’s plenty of time for me to voice my desires about how we should spend our time. πŸ™‚I’ll tell you who we don’t value, Art. We don’t value stingy cheapskates who only dish out compliments when the girl is doing something “extremely special.” What does that entail? A blow job? πŸ™‚ (Teasing.) My suggestion is designed specifically for the “average” looking man who needs to make a quick, strong impression and maximize his chances to see a stranger a second time.The last two guys who asked me to dinner for the first date ended up marrying me. πŸ™‚


  4. Aw, shucks, Delmer. Sorry you and your buds have had some bad experiences. I’ve never given my card to a stranger. In my scenario, I don’t have to, and you are completely spared the possibility of it being a fake number. If she calls you, you know for sure she is at least mildly interested. It’s up to you to hold that interest.If you were to ask for her number and call her later, you would never be sure if she was responding from interest or politeness.I think sometimes women give out phone numbers because they are embarrassed to say no. And if they are embarrassed or put on the spot, and they don’t want you to know their number, then maybe they write down a fake one.Sorry it happened to you.


  5. Wait … I never got a fake number — and neither have any of my close friends, as far as I know (probably because I ran around with a pretty harmless-looking group … not because we were all that irresistible). I just didn’t realize it was something women might do until I was old enough that I should have figured it out on my own. (If only Seinfeld had been on when I was in my 20’s.)The dating oddities I have now are typically of my own creation. I shy away from conversations that start with a friend saying, “You’re single? I have a friend/cousin/sister etc.” I don’t date coworkers (the last one I dated, against my better judgment, I married), and I don’t meet a lot of women when I’m riding my bike through the countryside (regardless of the number of jokes you may have heard on the subject, I’ve run across zero farmer’s daughters despite the number of miles I’ve racked up — of course, maybe I need to be a traveling salesman to make that work).For the record, the last woman I asked out I took to dinner, listened to what she had to say, didn’t talk too much, and was complimentary. It was nice to read here that a lot of what I did was right.


  6. Awesome post. I just couldn’t take my eyes off. It interested me till the last word. Just felt that, you wrote straight from the heart. I’ve read enough articles on dating, to see if they do talk any point, but most of them do sound artificial.I might try taking a tip or two out of your writing while wooing a girl. And I am not starting my wooing process from here ( from you), meaning, the compliments I wrote are true.


  7. Rock,Thanks for sharing your comments. Don’t forget: “wooing” shouldn’t mean “bullshitting.” Compliments should be true, whether wooing or not.And thanks for yours. πŸ˜‰Lisa


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